Background
This Association is an historical society focused on royal, nobiliary and genealogical aspects of this eminent part of Gaelic-Irish history. It is devoted to perpetuating the history of:
- The Irish Kingdom that existed, de facto, under the MacCarthy Mórs, Kings of Desmond until the Gaelic order was fully overthrown. The last reigning King of Desmond (composed primarily of the current counties of Cork and Kerry) was Donal IX MacCarthy Mór, who died in 1596, and
- The MacCarthys, and other families of Gaelic or other origins, which had and/or have roots in the areas that were within Desmond. Overall, the Association is intended to be a celebration of this part of Irish history!
Although the Gaelic order of ruling Irish kings, chiefs-of-name, and other nobles of the old order ended, their families and inheritances of their historic titles and honours continued, and continue as recognised in International Law and socially – e.g., for all ex-reigning Heads of Royal Houses and others. While there have been successional disputes due to the loss of records, and due to Irish titleholders of various rankings having to leave Ireland, the House of MacCarthy Mor has indeed continued to exist in all the centuries since the last king reigned. The current MacCarthy Mor (proclaimed in 2009) represents the legitimate line in descent directly from the Kings of Desmond, by both primogeniture and the Irish Brehon Law of Tanistry. He then is also Chief-of-Name/Captain-of-the-Nation (which title is the highest for all Irish and ‘gaelicised’ Norman-Irish families). This Association recognises his claim as authentic in every way, for we believe there is no superior claim.
This Association regards as ‘participants’ all people who are interested in the historic Kingdom of Desmond. This would naturally include those whose history was within the House of MacCarthy Mor and who acknowledge their historic relationship to that Royal House. Many would stem from the major historic “appanages” of that house, i.e. the Principalities of Carbery, Muskerry, and Duhallow, and the other major septs such as Sliocht Cormac of Dunguile, Cosmaigne, Clandonoroe, Clandermond, etc. among many others. The Association is also meant to be composed of the many other families who have or had titles/relationships to MacCarthy septs, or chiefships/history within what was the Kingdom of Desmond – and who also wish to be part of the cultural “trusteeship” of preserving the history of this part of Ireland, i.e. O Donoghue, O Long, O Driscoll, O Donovan, O Mahony, Barrett, O Daly, Barry, MacSweeney, O Sullivan, etc. etc. etc.
The Association is committed to research and educational exchange. It is particularly dedicated to overcoming the intense negativity which resulted from there being a false MacCarthy Mor for a period of recent years up till 1999. And is also most interested in providing a forum for interchange among descendants of the various septs of the MacCarthy House, with a view to finding hereditaries who can and should succeed finally and correctly to such historic titles as Prince of Carbery or Muskerry (or head of a sept such as those already mentioned and others). For indeed there are such blood descendants among the various MacCarthy septs as well as among other families of Munster who have remained chiefless. This lamentable situation can be changed with a proper forum and interchange, and via working in union and with the help of qualified genealogists. An Association such as this has been missing and indeed the field has been dominated by negativists in recent years.
And, finally, the Association is also meant to be a fellowship for all who participate. There will be a ‘news’ page which will facilitate interchange and help. As well as pages on the history of each sept etc. and its current situation as to what is extant or not extant (with suggestions as appropriate). It should be noted that there will be no dues for the Association and no paid employees. All work is voluntary on the part of interested participants, and an informal council of management will be composed of no more than five interested people. All identifications of participants will be held in confidence and no person will be identified without his or her specific permission.
The Association has no political agenda. Any ‘social’ activity will be private within the Association. It exists as said solely for the purpose of perpetuating the knowledge of the Irish Royal House of Desmond and Desmond history within the totality of Irish history – most particularly during the years of actual Irish rule. Much of that history has been lost due to lack of scholarship and outright prejudice. The Association hopes to sponsor studies and research to correct that situation. The Association likewise does not seek the approbation of any government, group, or individual, as its existence is a private matter and it is governed solely by its own Constitution and the historic Gaelic Laws as they operated from the mists of time in Ireland, updated only as appropriate for the modern and non-reigning situation. Its purpose thus is to act as a cultural ‘trusteeship’ for the history of Desmond and to be a voice for the now titular inheritances of an ex-ruling royal family, its historic dependents, and all families with roots in the ancient territories. Interest and participation from all Irish families of non-Gaelic origin who also have or had historic relationships to the area is solicited and welcomed!
To close this introduction, we wish to state very clearly that the Association is NOT a foundation of the current MacCarthy Mor, nor was his approval sought. It is totally separate from him and will never be other than an historical society, in effect. A MacCarthy Mor may never serve on the management council, and the Association will never be a source of funds for any MacCarthy Mor, ever. The current MacCarthy Mor is of course invited to ‘participate’ in the studies and exchanges within the Association.
The above is stated so as to avoid any possible mixing of interests, financial or otherwise, as happened when Terence McCarthy was posing as MacCarthy Mor (up till 1999) and used organisations he dominated as a source of personal funds. And to offset any charges that a MacCarthy Mor sponsored or is involved in the ordering of this Association.
Please feel free to CONTACT the Association.
Association Participation – Explanation and Criteria
There is no ‘membership’ in the Association as such. ‘Participation’ is per the Constitution open to all people interested in the history of the former Kingdom of Desmond, and certainly would include all those who held a MacCarthy title or chiefship of a MacCarthy branch or sept, or held an office within the former Kingdom of Desmond. Participation is also encouraged to representatives or chiefs of the other families with Desmond ties historically (see following).
Specifically re non-MacCarthys:
- participation is encouraged for all those who are Chiefs/Chieftains of Name of a Gaelic-Irish family/sept historically situated within the former Kingdom of Desmond. Such chiefs may be so either by hereditary proof or by election as ‘honourary’. Again, all are welcome, Desmond roots or not.
- participants would also include ‘chiefs-of-name/captains-of-nation’ of Norman-Irish families or branches thereof which adopted Gaelic Brehon Law practices. These in effect became what has often been referred to as a ‘gaelicised family’; and many in Desmond acknowledged the overlordship of a MacCarthy lord (e.g. families such as Barrett and branches of the Barrys in Cork). Such chiefs/chieftains may be participants even if their family never received a title or office from a King of Desmond or from the crown of Britain in one of its personalities, but had long history in Desmond. Families such as Hodnett and Arundel for example.
- activity in the Association is also open to all those with Desmond or other Irish roots…who are of other than Gaelic-Irish or ‘gaelicised’ Norman-Irish background. Some of these families would have ancestry which involved receiving a title grant from the British government (in one of its personalities – England, Great Britain, United Kingdom) which related to the former Kingdom of Desmond even if that Kingdom wasn’t recognised by the British government. They are most welcome to be interested in the Association and its projects.
A summary of the Gaelic titles etc. based on the various categories/histories within the historic Kingdom of Desmond will follow in the next section. UK titles referred to in (3) just above and in the previous section which are still extant will be discussed in the pages on the Association of Irish Peers, Standing Council of Irish Chiefs, etc. Fully extinct titles which related to Desmond as granted by the British government will not be mentioned. They are ‘extinct forever’ as they will never be revived or regranted. That government has clearly stated that it has no intention of granting titles or stylings which relate to the Republic of Ireland, and in any case now has no legal right to do so (not that it ever had any right to do so except as having been the ‘de facto’ government). For example, the previous King of England, George VI, father of Elizabeth II, had been granted the title of ‘Baron of Killarney’ (as located in County Kerry) by his father. That title was granted prior to the Anglo-Irish Agreement of 1922 which recognised the Irish Free State. And it ended with George VI’s elevation to the throne in 1936. And as said no titles related to lands or other designations within the Republic of Ireland have been issued since 1922 (actually since before that, 1898), to our knowledge.
Ultimate Objective
Having said all of the above, let us take a moment to state where the Association would like to go, ultimately.
Firstly, we need more ‘participants’, particularly those who are active in their clan organisations. The Association is new and has been put together via the efforts of only a handful of people. There are many projects we would like to undertake but need help, now and on-going. Yes, it will take time but know that the invitation to ‘participate’ is there.
Over time, perhaps it will take a generation, we would like to have a ‘physical presence’ on the ground in Ireland. We visualise a ‘place’ which will be the respository of all things of Desmond, under the Association and an elected Board of Trustees. It would accumulate everything that has ever been written, plus artifacts – so would be both a museum and a library. Plus an archive of family papers. But we see it also as a gathering place for Clans, for their Chiefs, and from the initiatives of the participants a catalyst for research, publishing articles and books, encouraging the understanding of the Gaelic Order, and yes even looking to preservations major and minor – – right down to helping restore so many of our cemeteries which have been allowed to deteriorate.
Where? Well, certainly a new ‘wing’ of the Rock of Cashel comes to mind, as does the idea of the completion of Kanturk Castle or some such. As said, this is the ultimate objective: it will take time, and the devotion of people to travel all the start-up roads, to include the raising of the funds to get started and the endowments to continue.
